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Post by thefrenchfrymaster on Dec 30, 2010 13:29:34 GMT -6
Who's in better shape and who are better workers? These kids or Chris Sader. Just sayin. Who brings more money to the gate? Who is a better worker, AJ Styles or John Cena? It's a business. It's a Bad Comparison. If AJ had the machinery (WWE) like Cena does, AJ will be on top. Cena has the looks and the Charisma, but AJ has the ring ability, like Shawn, Bret and those guys did. I'ts a business alright, but the notion that all wrestlers have to look like they did in the 80's is wrong. I guess my issue is with those muscular wrestlers (Good For them) is that they feel like they are superior PERFORMERS, just because they look good. The only muscular wrestlers who have done good (Without been good wrestlers) are the one who posses fantabulous, first class microphone skills. I don't think is about looking good, I think is about been capable to tell a story. The skinny kids in this poster (who are actually very good wrestlers) are capable of telling amazing stories thru their ring skills.
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Post by thefrenchfrymaster on Dec 30, 2010 13:58:10 GMT -6
I don't think it will be fair to compared this specific group of Wrestlers, to Kids from the H.S across the street. Flip Kendrick, Louis Lyndon are awesome wrestlers that are in shape. WHO can wrestle. Samuray is problably the smallest wrestler in the Midwest, but one of the most talented, and Joey Marx? Well, I just saw one of the best matches in Youtube...and you know who were wrestling? Joey Marx vs Doug Simmons... He made you look very good Doug There is a bunch of small guys that I will pay to see. There are a bunch of muscle guys that are Tan, with Tatoos that think are awesome that I will never pay to see... It's still a visual art? Yes but from both end's... Looks and performance... Really? I put that match together with Joey. From start to finsih. Joey is talented. Another 15-20 lbs and he is going to be in demand. I don't understand you Simmons. It's not like they are not in shape, they are just small lucha guys man. Joey DID made you look good brother, because I seen lots of you. And you have never look that good...NO OFFENSE I saw you working for Galli at Melrose park twice, why are you now bashing Galli's Lucha guys? And about Sader....Please...it's obvious he is a wonderful person , but now because you are training him, I have to pay to see his movie. People actually pay to see SADER or to see the other main events announced by CSW, Like Hacksaw, Danielson, Sunny, Colt cabana or Davey Richards? What really still bothers me is the Hunger strike comment... How do you think Marx, Samuray or the other two dudes will feel, been criticized about another wrestler who have share a locker room with them. I read a lot of negative comments from you, about UWC, now Galli and I know for a fact, eventually CSW. Not Cool
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Post by luchachicagoallpro on Dec 30, 2010 14:22:53 GMT -6
I don't disagree with your statement as far as Chris Sader being out of shape. He is. He would probably tell you the same. I'm his trainer (see Sader documentary) and he has been busting his ass. People come out and pay to see Chris. I doubt they do to see the four kids on that gnarly poster. What does Gnarly means Doug? I made this poster!!!!! hahaha
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Post by glen86 on Dec 30, 2010 14:33:33 GMT -6
Unpleasant; unattractive
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Post by luchachicagoallpro on Dec 30, 2010 14:44:29 GMT -6
ouch
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Post by Doug Simmons on Dec 30, 2010 15:12:09 GMT -6
You're totally missing the point. It's a very prejudiced business. I'm speaking from a business stand point. It's not about a match I had with Joey marxx. You put me on a poster for a show or Joey marxx and they will be more enticed by me. Joey is a great spot worker but that's of topic. Too many bookers/promoters look at the business from inside. Put yourself in the average casual fans chair. Do you think they actually remember what cool moves or spots they saw at the end of the night? Nope. They care about the characters they were connected with that evening. Most of the time these spot guys move to fast or do sh*t that's to complicated to digest. Austin Roberts does hardly any "wrestling" moves but looks the part and is a great talker. The girls love 450 and If Looks Could Kill. Why? Because they are good looking kids...they can work too. To many wannabe insiders and smart marks get hardons over skinny kickpad workerate obsessed workers. That makes up for maybe 5-10 percent of the general wrestling audience. Why wouldn't you cater to the other 90-95 percent. These are general statements geared towards indie wrestling. Would I tell this to anyone I've shared a locker room with? You don't know me brother. If you know me then you know I'm one of the most legit guys in the biz. This goes for any indie worker...look in the mirror and ask yourself if you would pay to see you. If you're not in it to make money then that's ok too. At the end of the day wrestling companies want to make money and fans want to see characters they normally wouldn't see in their everyday world.
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Post by johnson on Dec 30, 2010 15:43:13 GMT -6
Aeroform has competed for a national company, for a national audience with DGUSA.
Samuray Del Sol has been working all across the country with Lucha Va Voom.
I would imagine that in order for these guys to get national work their look as well as their work would have to be enticing too both fans and/or promoters.
With your great look and ability to draw the other 90-95 percent of fans, you must be turning down bookings left and right. Where are you working again?
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Post by Rerun World Hwt Champ of Love on Dec 30, 2010 15:49:34 GMT -6
People come out and pay to see Chris. How many of these people that pay to see Chris aren't related or friends of his already? Just sayin' Side note you can't hate on Samury because the dude is solid no matter how bid or small he is.
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Post by thefrenchfrymaster on Dec 30, 2010 15:50:32 GMT -6
You write that I'm totally missing the point. My point is that this group of wrestlers (the one's on the poster) are good enough to be a main event for any Lucha company. YOU completly disrigard them because the looked hungry? Do you know who this kids are? Do you know the trajectory of Samuray? Do you know that Samuray, Flip and Louis work for AAW also. Remember Simmons this is Lucha Libre.
This was never about a match you had with Joey Marx, you call him HUNGRY and I saw the youtube Video and he made you look good. Now how can he be not good enough? You write that if they put you on the poster, the fans will be ENTICED by you and not Joey? No comment, because sounds more narcissist than business. You mentioned that Joey is a spot worker? Why even go there on a public forum? You question if fans will remember bunch of spots from an indie show or a character. Well if the spots are freaking awesome, like the group in this poster are capable of, and you don't have a good characters? Then,,,, And remember, Indie fans paid to see wrestling. In this case Lucha.
You write that I don't know you, may be I don't want to..because I already know enough, not to want meeting you. You talk about in being one of the most LEGIT guys in the business. Real Legit guys don't talk about how Legit they are.
I have enjoy the argument, I respect you as a person, but I greatly differ from you
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Post by Doug Simmons on Dec 30, 2010 15:53:54 GMT -6
I don't work anymore. I was average at best. Pay attention Johnson. I didn't say I was the 90-95 percent. If you knew what was going on you would know I don't work anymore. Is national attention 300 internet buys?
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Post by Rerun World Hwt Champ of Love on Dec 30, 2010 15:54:33 GMT -6
You talk about in being one of the most LEGIT guys in the business. Real Legit guys don't talk about how Legit they are. Unless you're this guy then you can talk about how legit you are:
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Post by Doug Simmons on Dec 30, 2010 16:00:21 GMT -6
You talk about in being one of the most LEGIT guys in the business. Real Legit guys don't talk about how Legit they are. Unless you're this guy then you can talk about how legit you are: Rerun I love you bro.
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Post by johnson on Dec 30, 2010 16:08:42 GMT -6
I don't work anymore. I was average at best. Pay attention Johnson. I didn't say I was the 90-95 percent. If you knew what was going on you would know I don't work anymore. Is national attention 300 internet buys? I'll concede that I dont know what is going on with your career, Ducetrey. I don't have the mental ability to keep up with each and every indy guy on the scene. I agree with your sentiments that this is a business, first and foremost. Ultimately the goal of any pro wrestler should be to turn your wrestling "hobby" into your "profession." Receiving national exposure can play a huge role into helping these guys eventually land a wrestling job. BTW, I'm willing to bet that "300 internet buys" plus whatever the live gate is, is still more exposure than most in this area receive.
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Post by gallilucha on Dec 30, 2010 16:10:21 GMT -6
Not to cause more controversey, but as it was stated before who would fans pay to see. One of GALLI best runs was when we were in the Addison Community Center. If people remember we were running 2-3 shows a month in the same place and drawing 200-300 every show. At Most of those events the main matches involved guys like Joey Marx, Samuray, 450 Hammet, Bryce Benjamin, Prince Ali, Billy Star, Guardian and on occasions Lince Dorado, Helios, Shima Xion and other guys who fit that style. Joey Marx has been a GALLI main stay for over 3 years now and he one of the guys that people want to see every show. Samuray is one of the few guys on the indy seen can have either a lucha match or American match and look great every time. As far as Aeroform people love them and expect to see them in GALLI quite a bit in 2011. Just to finish it depends on the crowd you are working maybe the GALLI guys would not get a pop on a CSW show. But if you look at it that way certain guys from there would get booed out of a GALLI show. Very few guys are over with both crowds and Im proud to say the guys I mentioned are. We are sticking to what works with the GALLI fans.
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Post by gallilucha on Dec 30, 2010 16:16:34 GMT -6
O yeah lets not forget the "Soul Touchaz" who are over anywhere they go!!
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